Caramel Baloney

Re: more on male obligations

caramelbaloney:

chickenbonewatt:

caramelbaloney:

chickenbonewatt:

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Also, not wanting to raise a baby isn’t telling a woman what to do with her body. Yes.

I’m glad that you can see the potential for hypocrisy and unfairness. When something has been unbalanced for a long time and when many people still wish to revert to older, even more unjust routes, there is that risk to unwisely overcompensate in the stride towards equality.

I’ve always made it clear to women I’ve had sex with that I had no interest in children and I’ve flatly said that if they became pregnant and went through with it, the most they could ever get from me would be what the law forced me to give (and even then, there’s always Venezuela…). I always had a great fear, despite this proclamation and dating women that had little stated interest in having kids, that my girlfriend might change her mind if she actually became pregnant. At more than a few points in my life, it would have locked me into a life that would have been hard to climb out because of the financial drain, and all from a decision that I could not partake in. I can only imagine a woman might likewise feel so trapped if she didn’t have the option of a safe and legal abortion.

As you rightly pointed out, it doesn’t make sense to deride anti-choice people for insisting women made the choice when they chose to have sex, yet have no problems in insisting men made the choice when they had sex (and then should never have any say thereafter). It seems fair to me that men should have, at some point early in the process, a chance to opt in or out and after that they’d be locked in for support if they made that choice. Not making a choice would have to be implicitly understood as having chosen to support the child.

I really like the idea of some type of legally binding agreement soon after conception. It’s a sensible solution to the inequality of the biological reality, though it doesn’t encompass all situations (what could?). It would be much better to have that figured out before the pregnancy actually happens, of course. However, I’m not sure how many people would care for that discussion in the throes of initial passion. Pre-nups are hard enough to divorce from the romantic ideals of love. I’m strange though and it’d probably be a turn-on to be with someone that could bridge the gap between emotion and reason like that.

We need RISUG now! It’s a shame that men also don’t have many contraceptive options; they could avoid some of these undesirable situations if they had responsibility for their own birth control (condoms are not as effective as people want to believe). You bring up one reason why abortion access is critical: while men might have to suffer many years of financial obligation from unwanted pregnancy, women might have to sacrifice money, time, health, life goals, social and sex lives, etc. due to unwanted pregnancy.

I like the idea of a contract after conception; it would be too difficult to obtain one beforehand in the case of, say, casual encounters. After conception, she could first choose to terminate the pregnancy without notification, or she could discuss the options with the father and come to a legal agreement before deciding. Here, even if the man decides he doesn’t want a child, he should at least have an obligation to pay a share of abortion or pregnancy costs. If she goes through with birth without any consent from or connection to the father, she shouldn’t expect anything. I wonder if there might be fewer births if this were the law instead. There is the difficulty of a woman going through a pregnancy without inclusion of the father when he may actually want to be involved, but that might be a separate legal issue.

I love your diction here: “Pre-nups are hard enough to divorce from the romantic ideals of love.” I don’t have any money, and I don’t expect to know anyone with money, though I do know many people with enormous debt. If I decided to marry someone with all that debt, I’d have to demand some kind of legal agreement beforehand. Things don’t always work out, and there’s no way I’d want to carry someone else’s debt after a divorce. Romance isn’t going to overpower that kind of anxiety, but no, nobody thinks that’s a turn-on.

Source: fuckyeahmenfolk