Caramel Baloney

alexander ryking: Since the 19th Ammendment to the U.S. Constitution seems to be such a flash point because it wasn't perfect at the time...

rabblevolunteer:

ryking:

rabblevolunteer:

ryking:

rabblevolunteer:

rabblevolunteer:
…
REALLY? Are you fucking kidding me!? So you think this is the appropriate response when women accuse you of “mansplaining”? REALLY?

I agreed with you when you were talking about the complaining in regards to the 19th amendment, I got where you were coming from, but this…

I don’t care about how you intended it. Grow the fuck up and move on. I’m sorry you felt ganged up on. I am. But posting this is absolutely offensive, regardless of your intent and it’s not really helping your first point.

I think it raises a good point: What DO women like the one who railed against the amendment want? To rehash historical wrongs ad nauseum? To dwell on the negativeinstead of embracing the positive? Is it impossible to appreciate something that’s imperfect? Is equality a joke and power a zero-sum game for all? Are white men going to be cast as the villain for the rest of eternity? Just. Fucking. Curious. — Ryking

I agree that sometimes it seems like things are never enough and no one can appreciate the accomplishments we’ve made (as in society, not women collectively) but posting this (even as a rhetorical joke) is not helping your argument and, to me, it made you look like a major tool. There’s nothing wrong with celebrating social accomplishments and there’s nothing wrong with reminding ourselves that more can be done to make the world better but making what boils down to a “sandwich joke” about revoking the 19th amendment isn’t helping your point about celebrating it when jokes like that are still made. And you (who argued we should celebrate it for the amazing accomplishment it was in the 1920s) perpetuating something like this is only helping undermine the overall accomplishment rather than celebrate it.

While I agree with many of your points, I don’t see how this sarcastic post can be taken seriously on its face (and can’t be bothered worrying about that because if I worried about people being offended I couldn’t write a fucking thing) and I don’t see that it makes me look bad but I think, despite the sarcasm, it asks a good question. Do some of the complainers think we’d be better off if the amendment never passed? I’d really like to know. — Ryking

It’s not about me being offended it’s about the damage perpetuating statements like this (regardless of intent) can do. If you really don’t see how something like this isn’t taken seriously, then you have never been to a facebook “sandwich” group, where misogynistic “jokes” like this are stated (and believed) by the men who run them. Perpetuating this idea is offensive to the passage of the 19th amendment and it implies that because women ganged up on you about your opinion they should therefore be stripped of the right to vote (in a completely joking manner of course, there’s no hint of retaliatory anger in reblogging this, it’s just a joke).

I’m not a “complainer” as you put it about the 19th amendment and brave-slut made it clear that no one was saying we’d be better off, even implying that that question was proposed is ridiculous. Women deserve the right to vote and be seen as equals, the “complainers” as you put it were merely pointing out that the passage of the 19th amendment did not include all women, which is a fact. The statement that you were originally mad about struck me the same way as it did you (I can’t remember how you put it exactly but somewhere along the lines of “I didn’t get mine so I don’t care that you got yours” or something). So, I can’t answer on behalf of the “complainers” as you put it (because I was not one of them) but reblogging this “sarcastic” question reeksof male privilege and you need to realize that. It’s undermining your original argument to reblog something somisogynistic, if you want to be listened to, if you don’t want to be accused of “mansplaining”, then reblogging shit like this is probably the worst way to go about it.

You know what? I can’t control — nor can I worry —- about what other people are going to think my “intent” was. So I don’t. Do you worry about offending anti-choice zealots? Do you curtail your arguments or refuse to stand up for yourself when someone disagrees — or even attacks — you?

And this post was not an offensive comment that was then “covered” by “just kidding” or one of the other nonsense defenses by some bigoted asshole, and if people can’t see that, that’s not my fucking problem. Again, I can’t control or worry about how people will perceive — or misperceive — things. If I did, I’d never be able to blog.

And a clarification: I wasn’t accusing you of being a complainer. As for brave-slut: She lost all credibility with me when she resorted to the gender-based insult of “mansplaining.” Don’t say you’re a feminist, decry negative behavior aimed at people on the basis of gender, and then engage in said behavior.

As for me reeking of male privilege? Everything I do will reek of male privilege in some people’s eyes; I will not let their perceptions and misperceptions of me govern how I live or how I behave on this blog. I am a gay man and will not be shoved into a closet by some humorless feminists who don’t even meet my definition of feminism, who want power and domination, not equality. I’m not talking about you, I’m talking about others.

Most Americans celebrate the Declaration of Independence each year in a parade of excess, though independence and equality were really only declared for white men. So should we put away the sparklers and bottle rockets? Probably, since fireworks are idiotic, but we would still agree that July 4th is worthy of note.

Nobody stated that the 19th Amendment was the end of feminism, that everything was achieved and we settled down happily. It was an important first step, and while women of color were mistakenly excluded, its passage helped open up opportunities for later women’s rights. Regardless of whatever is taught in schools these days, if anyone can take a look around this country and conclude that civil rights were achieved all around long ago, then he or she isn’t going to be open to much critical thought. The original quote stated, “Can we all just admit that today as the 90th anniversary of women’s right to vote is an absolute crock of shit. If all women were allowed to vote, would the 1965 Voting Rights Act have been necessary?” While it is important to note that not all women were given the right to vote, it remains important to acknowledge and appreciate the people who started the fight. A reasonable point was made that we wouldn’t be happy if the 19th Amendment were revoked. To dismiss these initial steps as a crock of shit seems a bit erroneous.

Furthermore, it seems erroneous to gang up on men who point out flaws in feminist arguments. It’s ludicrous to suggest that their arguments are invalid if they disagree with ours, simply because they come from privilege. If they make a logical point, then privilege can’t do anything to counteract that point. Like it or not, there are many white men out there, and there are a few that are thoughtful and constructive. Also, like it or not, in order for anyone to have equal rights, mostly white men will be making the decision. This certainly doesn’t mean we should bend to the will of these men, but it does mean that attacking rational thought with hysteria or cries of mansplaining aren’t going to be very helpful.

(Side note: if anyone else is frustrated that our interests may not be adequately represented, then look up range and approval voting. The 19th Amendment was an initial step, but there’s still a long way to go for representative vote reform.)

Source: steampunkanachronism